Electric breakers tripping

Breaker problems

I recently got a call from a new resident to check out a problem with a circuit breaker tripping. When I got there the first thing I noticed was a wire rated at fifteen amps was tied onto a thirty amp breaker. After replacing the breaker with the proper sized one I set out to find the cause of the short circuit.

One area of the ten year old home had no lights. Simple enough just open up those boxes and find the short. Well after an hour of that things we began tracing wires in the attic. Soon we found a wire that had burned like the coil in a toaster for ten feet across the trusses and plywood in the attic and melted together.

They were very lucky people that they didn't out smart the electrical systems safe guards. I see this type of wiring weekly. After making the repair we looked for the cause. As we walked into the master bedroom the owner pointed out TWO, 1500 watt wall heaters which should of both had there own circuits. Being from back east they chose to heat there master bedroom that wasn't getting warm with the home system with the wall heaters.

We solved the problem by moving the thermostat to the bedroom instead of the hall and adjusting the vents. Threw the wall heaters in the trash. In this case nothing but dumb luck kept the home from burning. Feel free to call with any questions about your issues. Advice is free. Check out our website at RESArizona.com

Discontinued panels and breakers

There are two main manufactures of panels that have been discontinued because of a history of fires due to overheating.
#1. Zinsko a very popular panel in it's day. They
have two major problems. Failure to trip or open when required and buss problems as visible on the right. As you can see the breaker as well as the buss have been corroded and burnt. This creates a bad connection, heat and possible fire.

These breakers are some times very hard to reset. You can still buy replacement breakers at greatly inflated prices. $70.00 for a single pole breaker. It it usually cost effective to replace these panels because of repair cost as well as piece of mind.


#2. Federal Pacific Electric FPE breakers. They can also go buy

• identifying labels:

• Federal Electric                           
• Federal Pacific Electric
• Federal NOARC
• Federal Pioneer
• FPE
• FPE-Stab-Lok
• Stab-Lok 

 As you can see buy the breaker on the right heat has been created when failure to trip had happened during an overload. Again you can notice the burnt stab lock where the breaker contacts the buss. I am not an alarmist but would recommend a thorough inspection of all parts of either of these panel manufacturers. Take a particularly good look at connection points both where the wire connects to the breaker and neutral bar as well as the buss and stab locks on the breakers. Any discoloration on the wires is likely caused by over loaded wires. And of course the burnt buss and breaker connection points is reason for concern. 

Feel free to call or email me Phil at 480-694-6531 or philkroff@yahoo.com with your questions or concerns

Breaker won't reset

I'm often times called out on service calls because a customer has lost power and can't get their breaker to reset. I always try to help the customer on the phone with a couple pieces of advice.

#1. Breakers work off the heat produced. As more power is used the heat rises in a breaker until it hits the trip point of the breaker. So when a breaker hits the limit and trips it will not reset until it has cooled.  In most cases it will reset after cooling. This isn't to say it won't trip again if the circuit is still overloaded. Never over size the breaker to the wire size, that's how fires start.

#2. Many times a main breaker will trip and even after cooling won't reset. Most the time these breakers aren't catching when turned to the off position to reset. If you take a hammer and apply as much pressure as possible to the off position most of the time it will eventually reset. I've had many customers tell me that they tried my method to reset and the breaker was no good only to make a service call and reset it like I described.

Keep in mind that there are two reasons for a breaker to trip. Drawing too much power through it and the breaker itself can become weak and not operate properly. In most cases the main breaker will need to be replaced with in the near future.

When and why do I need a Electric service change?

There are several reasons you might need an Electrical service change. At Quality Contractor Services Inc. the majority of our work comes from insurance companies demanding a service be changed after a home sale. Many of these panels are over forty years old or more. From the old style glass fuses to the discontinued and dangerous services that are no longer UL approved. I will list below the reasons for most service changes.

#1. Federal Pacific, Challenger and Zinsco panels and breakers have proved to be obsolete and even dangerous due to breakers failure to trip when overloaded. These panels are almost always suggested to be changed by home inspectors and insurance companies. I make it a point not to use scare tactics when selling a new service but suggest you Google these particular brands and form your own opinion.

#2. The Bussing system is the back bone of your electrical system. Many times the interior connection points become corroded. The buss system of the panel can become burnt and pitted causing a bad connection at the breaker. This can cause heat and fluctuations in voltage dangerous to electric appliances. It is only a matter of time for a burnt buss to fail.

#3. Running out of breaker space is another reason to up grade but not always necessary. If you panel is rated at 150 amps or less and out of breaker spaces I would suggest an upgrade to a 200 amp service. If you have a 200 amp service in good condition I would suggest load calculations to be done on the house. With all of today's electrical equipment it's common to have many circuit breakers to supply devices that might be rarely used. Many times after doing load calc's it is possible to add a sub panel next to the main panel for additional breaker spaces. Most electricians would rather do a full service change so get a few opinions before doing an upgrade because of no breaker spaces available. I recently added a sub panel for $400.00 and resolved the owners problem. Two other electricians recommended up grading to a 400 amp service and their bids were $4,600.00 and $6,000.00.

#4. Many times a electric service will need to be relocated due to adding a patio, structure or pool to meet safety requirements of the power company. I would suggest always up grading to a 200 amp service in these instances if a smaller one is currently in use. The price difference between adding a 100 amp and 200 amp is minimal. Usually in these cases you will add a new panel in a new location and replace the old service with a sub panel fed from the new service.

#5. Cosmetics, if you have an older panel that isn't water resistant. If your panel is rusted or has holes in it. If your covers are missing or it just looks in bad condition. Consider changing it. This is just a judgement call. I always say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But bad connections are the main reason or frankly only reason for electrical failure and the number one reason for electrical fires. Just use common sense and if in doubt feel free to call for an inspection from a licensed electrician. Keep in mind many electricians are salesman and don't make money unless they make a sale. Try and find some one you can trust.

How much does it cost for an Electric Panel Service Changes

Quality Contractor Services has specialized in Electric service changes for over thirty years in Arizona. You can view our website at RESArizona.com or feel free to call Phil at 480-694-6531 with questions. Estimates and advice is free.

The first thing a home owner wants to know is how much is it going to cost. When I did a search on Google to see what the current information was I was amazed. It would be as easy to find Noah’s Ark to get a straight answer to that question.

Let’s get to it. First we need to be on the same page. I am now talking about the main electric panel that the meter is installed in or next to. In my area any upgrade has to be a minimum of a 200 amp 240 volt single phase. So this covers eighty percent of my quotes. For us to install a 200 amp, 40 space, all in one panel. The panel I use most of the time is a Siemens model MC4040B1200SECW. My base price is $1,500.00 this includes taxes and permits.

Only about half of my quotes are basic jobs though. There are several things involved in the service change. Usually there are pipes with added on electric. These need to be taken into consideration. Often the power company will require it moved to a new location for any number of reasons or a new location is required because your adding a pool. Then there will be junction boxes and feeders necessary to maintain service.

Last week for example we did service change
#1. for $1,400.00 It was a 200 amp to 200 amp with no added pipes to feed. He got another deduction because we didn't have to upgrade the grounding system.
#2. The second of the week was an upgrade from 100 amp to 200 amp in a new location due to the gas meter being in too close approximation. We ended up putting an inch and a half feeder to a junction box at the roof access for future electrical runs. As well we used two junction boxes to incorporate the existing circuits to the new box twenty feet away. The price for this was $2,200.
#3. Was a standard 200 amp for 200 amp with no added pipes but included a new grounding system for $1,500.00.

My prices are very reasonable and other electricians that aren't set up strictly for service changes often charge as much as double for the same service. I get the job on over 90% of the jobs I bid on, so I wouldn't expect anyone to be much less expensive if they are including permits and taxes.

I service Arizona. Please feel free to contact me for any of your electrical questions. Advice is free, so are estimates.